So how’s everyone holding up because of the Coronavirus

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draph91
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So how’s everyone holding up because of the Coronavirus

Post by draph91 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:52 pm

I hope you’re all doing fine
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Re: So how’s everyone holding up because of the Coronavirus

Post by CharmQuark » Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:28 am

Hey there matey!!

Doing pretty ok here so far. I'm keeping mam safe as she is sheilded and can't go out apart from the garden. I do the bill paying and shopping lol. How are you? Are you doing ok?
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Re: So how’s everyone holding up because of the Coronavirus

Post by DCWhitworth » Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:57 am

I'm doing pretty good. Able to work from home pretty well, only downers are having to cancel a holiday and worse, not having a cricket season.

Beyond that, a lifetime of being anti-social is finally paying off ! I no longer have to avoid people, they avoid me !
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Re: So how’s everyone holding up because of the Coronavirus

Post by chelle » Wed May 13, 2020 3:23 pm

Doing good. We’re getting step by step out of our lockdown.

As we are here on a ‘science’ forum, this crisis has clearly shown how little knowledge and bad advice scientific experts can give when in comes to security!

Early on it was already clear that the virus was airborn but the WHO kept claiming for a very long time that wearing mask wasn’t needed. Local scientist that advice the government copied that message for months, and now, finally, they say that it’s beneficial, and these same scientist who even first ridiculed wearing masks are now making promo videos on how to wear mask. Also worrying to see how politicians just blindly follow these experts, they’re all covering each others asses.

It’s the same BS as the info on how safe particle collisions are, they 'don’t know shit about fuck' when push comes to shove, only looking at particular details but not able to see the bigger picture.

People should have been put much earlier in quarantine and serious measurements should have been taken, they (government and science experts) did not dare to do so ... they are all up there neck into politics, top scientists are simply politicians, they are no longer objective, they are so connected to funding etc.

We had a scientific expert in Covid viruses that warned us from the start but he was laughed away by our minister of health as a ‘Dramaqueen’ for warning the public, a few weeks later the whole country needed to be shutdown.

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Re: So how’s everyone holding up because of the Coronavirus

Post by DCWhitworth » Wed May 13, 2020 5:43 pm

Interesting that on the one hand you say the problem is that politicians have been slavishly listening to scientists and then end up giving an example of scientists not being listened to by politicians.

I disagree with you heavily. Most of this has been caused by politicians not listening to scientists and then spinning it so that 'the science has changed'. Pandemic research and prevention have been hugely underfunded forever by governments (the US had a department specifically for preparing for a pandemic, Trump shut it down in 2018).

Yes scientists have been guessing at times, largely because there's so many unknown variables, but it's educated guesses. And the serious underfunding has made this worse. It's interesting to notice that the countries that have promptly implemented scientific advice (Germany, Japan, Australia, New Zealand) have come out pretty well, whereas those who dithered and changed their minds (US, UK) are doing really badly, and it's even worse considering the infection arrived late in their countries so there was already a pile of evidence to go on. So they're spinning it to blame others (a Trump speciality) to distract from their own criminal negligence.
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Re: So how’s everyone holding up because of the Coronavirus

Post by chelle » Wed May 13, 2020 9:57 pm

DCWhitworth wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 5:43 pm
Interesting that on the one hand you say the problem is that politicians have been slavishly listening to scientists and then end up giving an example of scientists not being listened to by politicians.
The scientist I referred to at the end, wasn't a scientist from the 'incrowd' the minister followed a scientist with a political background. That's why I wrote second last paragraph 'top' scientists.

I disagree with you heavily. Most of this has been caused by politicians not listening to scientists and then spinning it so that 'the science has changed'.
Well in the US you had Fauci say that it was best to wear (selfmade) masks in the beginning of April, while the WHO was still waving it away. Our 'top' scientists followed the WHO.

Pandemic research and prevention have been hugely underfunded forever by governments (the US had a department specifically for preparing for a pandemic, Trump shut it down in 2018).
I won't dispute this.

Yes scientists have been guessing at times, largely because there's so many unknown variables, but it's educated guesses.
Explain me why begin April the Fauci advices to all wear masks, while the WHO doesn't.

Lots of strange politics at play!
And the serious underfunding has made this worse. It's interesting to notice that the countries that have promptly implemented scientific advice (Germany, Japan, Australia, New Zealand) have come out pretty well, ...
Some of those countries have closed their borders immediately something that left wing scientists couldn't imagine to do because of their political views.

Edit: Germany has great industrial ties with China and bought all reagentia for testing, other countries had nothing to test with. Makes a world of difference.
... whereas those who dithered and changed their minds (US, UK) are doing really badly,
In some parts in the US it is much less worse than in Europe, see for instance California.

Overall seen the disease isn't that bad.

Let's say double the amount of people have died than normal, that is still not a lot.

How many people do you know that died of Covid-19?

It are mainly elderly who only had a few years to live or others with underlying symptoms.

We live in a time where people get very old.
...and it's even worse considering the infection arrived late in their countries so there was already a pile of evidence to go on. So they're spinning it to blame others (a Trump speciality) to distract from their own criminal negligence.
Trump got a lot of critique from left wing media for canceling flights from China.

Not saying that he isn't good at blaming others, at times he's an a-hole. He was lucky to have Fauci.

But here in Europe the WHO was followed blindly and they were very wrong, this is a very left wing political group ... I don't mind social ideas, but when science becomes too politicised then there's something fishy going on.
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Re: So how’s everyone holding up because of the Coronavirus

Post by DCWhitworth » Thu May 14, 2020 7:27 am

chelle wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:57 pm
The scientist I referred to at the end, wasn't a scientist from the 'incrowd' the minister followed a scientist with a political background. That's why I wrote second last paragraph 'top' scientists.
I think you put your finger on the problem here. Politicians like to pick scientists who say the sorts of things they want to hear and who moderate what they say to fit the political climate, this has proved literally fatal in this climate. This is the fault of the politicians, not the scientists.
Well in the US you had Fauci say that it was best to wear (selfmade) masks in the beginning of April, while the WHO was still waving it away. Our 'top' scientists followed the WHO.
Scientists sometimes disagree ! Who knew ! You are making the issue too black and white. It isn't do or don't, there are shades for grey. The WHO have not said there's no need to wear face masks at all, but there is a disagreement of their efficacy. There is also the issue of supply and the fact if they all came out and said 'wear masks' there would be so much stupid panic buying that there would be a threat to the supply to areas where there is no disagreement about wearing them (e.g. hospitals).

Much of the advice is about practical balance and finding statistical sweet spots. The 2m distance is often treated as some sort of magical number, but of course it isn't. It's an educated guess at an optimal number.
Explain me why begin April the Fauci advices to all wear masks, while the WHO doesn't.

Lots of strange politics at play!
Are you suggesting that the advice that the general public don't need to wear masks is political ??

And anyway you are making it black and white. Their advice merely varied in terms of when you should wear a mask. It isn't one saying always wear a mask and another saying never wear them.

And see my previous point - scientists disagree, happens all the time especially in situations like this where the evidence to work on is patchy. It doesn't have to have anything to do with politics.
Some of those countries have closed their borders immediately something that left wing scientists couldn't imagine to do because of their political views.

Edit: Germany has great industrial ties with China and bought all reagentia for testing, other countries had nothing to test with. Makes a world of difference.
Germany's fundamental ability to test has been overstated, usually by politicians looking for an excuse as to why Germany is doing better. It probably has more to do with the country being led by a woman with a scientific background.

If nations had put in place proper preparation and planning for this sort of thing there wouldn't be such a mad scramble now.
In some parts in the US it is much less worse than in Europe, see for instance California.

Overall seen the disease isn't that bad.

Let's say double the amount of people have died than normal, that is still not a lot.

How many people do you know that died of Covid-19?

It are mainly elderly who only had a few years to live or others with underlying symptoms.

We live in a time where people get very old.
This is utterly callous. This is the typical "It's not that bad, these people would have died anyway" excuse that seems a favourite of the political right. Are you happy to go into hospital and tell someone they are not going to get treatment because they 'were going to die anyway' ? We're all going to die sooner or later. The average lost life expectancy of those dying currently stands at about 15 years.

How many people do I know that have died ? How is this a relevant questions ? Are you saying that if I haven't personally experienced something it might all be made up, that it perhaps isn't real ? Our strength as humans is the ability to understand and learn from things we haven't personally experienced, to suggest that because things might not be bad around where I am that everything else is made up throws us back to the Stone Age.

Anyway the answer to your question is that I know three people who have died from the disease, and they were not all old.
Trump got a lot of critique from left wing media for canceling flights from China.

Not saying that he isn't good at blaming others, at times he's an a-hole. He was lucky to have Fauci.

But here in Europe the WHO was followed blindly and they were very wrong, this is a very left wing political group ... I don't mind social ideas, but when science becomes too politicised then there's something fishy going on.
I'm happy to accept that the flights issue is the one thing Trump probably got right, although one could achieve the same by testing and quarantining (although not if your country hasn't prepared), but it's about the only thing he got right so he's been going on about it a lot. Doesn't mention his "We'll be back to normal by Easter statement" or similar things.

It's notable that the more right wing governments have screwed it up more, so the source of the accusations that the WHO are left wing seems obvious. Blaming someone else as usual.

How were the WHO very wrong ? Where is your evidence that they are 'very left wing' ? The major WHO advice was 'test, test, test' which most governments seem to have taken casually especially the US and UK. As the management saying goes, if you can't measure it you can't manage it.
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Re: So how’s everyone holding up because of the Coronavirus

Post by chelle » Thu May 14, 2020 8:57 am

DCWhitworth wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:27 am
chelle wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:57 pm
The scientist I referred to at the end, wasn't a scientist from the 'incrowd' the minister followed a scientist with a political background. That's why I wrote second last paragraph 'top' scientists.
I think you put your finger on the problem here. Politicians like to pick scientists who say the sorts of things they want to hear and who moderate what they say to fit the political climate, this has proved literally fatal in this climate. This is the fault of the politicians, not the scientists.
Yeah sure it is me who sees things black and white, while you fail to see that the connection between politicians and scientists (lobby) goes both ways.

Regarding the WHO check this article in The Atlantic and that sure isn't a right wing newspaper:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ed/610063/

who.jpg

When you read the article you'll see that strange politics have been at play ... incl. wearing masks!

Note, our health minister is a woman and she had our whole safety stock of masks destroyed a couple of years ago. BTW She is a general practitioner by profession (scientist), and she kept claiming for months that mask have no use in public. Our minister of budget was also responsible for the destruction of these masks because it was done to cut finances, that minister of budget was also a woman and she's now even our PM.

It is not callous to say that risks are low for younger people, there are even less people dying in certain categories because of the lockdowns. Cycling to school is much more dangerous, ... the flue is also dangerous and also kills thousands each year.

Objectively looking at the numbers, that is science, science is indifferent, taking safety measurements on the other hand is related to policy making ... politics ... our top scientist here is connected to the (extreme) left, pacifistic political view. It has cost us dearly, him not wanting to put travellers in quarantine, wearing masks are no use, "they only have a psychological effect". I'm not kidding.

Also keep in mind that plenty of people are suffering from the lockdown ... kids not going to school is probably even worse than keeping them at home, if you look at the bigger picture.

Bottom line is that the 'experts' had no EXPERIENCE the same goes for those who draw out the safety paper of the LHC. We have limited experience with high luminosity high energy collisions in one fixed spot.
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Re: So how’s everyone holding up because of the Coronavirus

Post by chelle » Sun May 17, 2020 8:47 pm

DCWhitworth wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:27 am
Germany's fundamental ability to test has been overstated, usually by politicians looking for an excuse as to why Germany is doing better. It probably has more to do with the country being led by a woman with a scientific background.
chelle wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:57 am
... our health minister is a woman and she had our whole safety stock of masks destroyed a couple of years ago. BTW She is a general practitioner by profession (scientist), and she kept claiming for months that mask have no use in public. Our minister of budget was also responsible for the destruction of these masks because it was done to cut finances, that minister of budget was also a woman and she's now even our PM.


A small update, this is the reception she got yesterday when visiting a hospital, just so you know I’m not making it up:



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="fr" dir="ltr">Aujourd hui, une haie d&#39;honneur ou pas pour Sophie Wilmes (1ère ministre Belge) à l&#39;hôpital St Pierre à <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bruxelles?s ... uxelles</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Belgique?sr ... elgique</a> <a href="https://t.co/Loy6mDyK91">pic.twitter.co ... </p>&mdash; L&#39;infirmier 💎 (@Infirmier0) <a href=" 16, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-euro ... phie-wilms

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Re: So how’s everyone holding up because of the Coronavirus

Post by chelle » Tue May 19, 2020 7:59 am

chelle wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 8:57 am
... risks are low for younger people ...
A small update on the actual numbers:

32 of the +9000 that died where younger than 45 years old.

It goes to show that an 'event' can have far different and more disastrous outcomes depending on the setting.

In nature there are about a thousand Cosmic-ray collisions of a few GeV’s (1 GeV= 10^9 electron Volt) per second per m^2. In LHC it are about one 1 billion per second per cm^2. That’s 1.000.000 times more for an area which is 10.000 smaller, it is a density & frequency difference of 10 billion and unique in the Universe. (see pic: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... nosity.png)

You could see that as a difference between a 1 year old with no risk, and an elderly who's body has become far more fragile.

The vertical y-axis is the difference in density ('aging'):

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