Well that is my point from the start, the LHC can only detect the linear decay that I mentioned previously, but not the other vibrations that the LHC is producing at a frequency and density that is a billion times higher than Cosmic Rays in nature.mfb wrote:Some things are very easy to spot … This is a bit different from gravitational wave detectors …
LIGO - Was It All Just Noise?
Re: LIGO - Was It All Just Noise?
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Wear Sunscreen by Baz Luhrmann - Mary Schmich
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Re: LIGO - Was It All Just Noise?
There are no "other vibrations".
You are trapped in your misconception.
You are trapped in your misconception.
Re: LIGO - Was It All Just Noise?
The LHC can produce Micro Black Holes, and if LIGO detects waves from BH's that are 2 million light years away … than surely there are vibrations at the LHC. Billions. Think!mfb wrote:There are no "other vibrations".
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Re: LIGO - Was It All Just Noise?
There is no indication that it could, and these black holes would be obvious if they would have been produced. Even if could, they wouldn't produce notable gravitational waves.chelle wrote:The LHC can produce Micro Black Holes
Roughly a billion light years away. From two black holes with tens of solar masses, releasing the energy-equivalent of three solar masses in fractions of a second. These black hole mergers briefly have a power exceeding the total power (all types of emission) of every other source in the observable universe combined.and if LIGO detects waves from BH's that are 2 million light years away
Re: LIGO - Was It All Just Noise?
You probably mean here 'detectable'.mfb wrote:There is no indication that it could, and these black holes would be obvious if they would have been produced. Even if could, they wouldn't produce notable gravitational waves.chelle wrote:The LHC can produce Micro Black Holes
… and of course not, because those signals drown within all the noise, as LIGO has shown how difficult it is to detect in all quietness waves within a limited spectrum, even at LIGO all the other frequencies of GW's are undetectable due to noise.
Yes, and one can lit a forest fire with a tiny spark, that has similarly zillions of times less energy than an Atom-bomb, but it can be as devastating.mfb wrote:Roughly a billion light years away. From two black holes with tens of solar masses, releasing the energy-equivalent of three solar masses in fractions of a second. These black hole mergers briefly have a power exceeding the total power (all types of emission) of every other source in the observable universe combined.and if LIGO detects waves from BH's that are 2 million light years away
You can even start such a fire with rubbing a piece of would often enough until it heats up. That's what's happening at the LHC, one super tiny rub after an other at an incredible high rate, until you get a flash.
It is the law of multiplication 9.000.000.000 times 1 within 1 second, heating things up.
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Wear Sunscreen by Baz Luhrmann - Mary Schmich
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Re: LIGO - Was It All Just Noise?
Both. It is something like 50 to 100 orders of magnitude too weak to be detected, and also 20 to 50 orders of magnitude too weak to play a role in the collision. It is so utterly negligible that it doesn't even need more precise estimates.chelle wrote:You probably mean here 'detectable'.mfb wrote:There is no indication that it could, and these black holes would be obvious if they would have been produced. Even if could, they wouldn't produce notable gravitational waves.chelle wrote:The LHC can produce Micro Black Holes
There is not even a forest. The vacuum is the lowest-energy state.Yes, and one can lit a forest fire with a tiny spark, that has similarly zillions of times less energy than an Atom-bomb, but it can be as devastating.
You can even start such a fire with rubbing a piece of would often enough until it heats up. That's what's happening at the LHC, one super tiny rub after an other at an incredible high rate, until you get a flash.
There is nothing to heat up.It is the law of multiplication 9.000.000.000 times 1 within 1 second, heating things up.
Re: LIGO - Was It All Just Noise?
Sure one or two collisions per second are 'negligible' but it are many small creeks that feed a river.mfb wrote:Both. It is something like 50 to 100 orders of magnitude too weak to be detected, and also 20 to 50 orders of magnitude too weak to play a role in the collision. It is so utterly negligible that it doesn't even need more precise estimates.
Yes the Vacuum is the lowest-energy state, but not without energy, it can transmit gravity-waves, that in turn can heat up matter that surrounds the collision spot. Just like during a forest fire; where a couple of spark can lit up a tree, and how the heat is transmitted through the air to lit one tree after the other causing a chain-reaction.mfb wrote:There is not even a forest. The vacuum is the lowest-energy state.You can even start such a fire with rubbing a piece of would often enough until it heats up. That's what's happening at the LHC, one super tiny rub after an other at an incredible high rate, until you get a flash.
So I am not saying that the Vacuum will combust, but it can transmit heat-waves from one Atom, that combusts and collapses, onto the next one. Earth is made of nothing than Atoms => Forest.
The LHC squeezes the bunches into one collision spot:mfb wrote:There is nothing to heat up.It is the law of multiplication 9.000.000.000 times 1 within 1 second, heating things up.
That is like a magnifying glass bundling heat into one spot to start a fire:
But it isn't the air that starts to burn, it is what surrounds the collision spot.
--
Now we are at A. The incipient stage, moving on to B. The smouldering stage, but we are not able to detect the fumes, so just keep on going until one point where we get at C. The flaming stage and it is too late.
Dance, even if you have nowhere to do it but your own living room.
Wear Sunscreen by Baz Luhrmann - Mary Schmich
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Re: LIGO - Was It All Just Noise?
You're late, I already posted a link to that (original) response a few posts ago.
There is however a new article by Ethan Siegel on the subject:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswith ... hoaScience
Based on a new response from the Danish group on the link you just posted:
http://www.nbi.ku.dk/gravitational-waves/
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Wear Sunscreen by Baz Luhrmann - Mary Schmich
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Re: LIGO - Was It All Just Noise?
Someone asked me today where you got these numbers because there's nothing published on particle collisions generating gravitational waves. Could you enlighten us or was it just some hand waving?mfb wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:37 pmBoth. It is something like 50 to 100 orders of magnitude too weak to be detected, and also 20 to 50 orders of magnitude too weak to play a role in the collision. It is so utterly negligible that it doesn't even need more precise estimates.chelle wrote:You probably mean here 'detectable'.mfb wrote: There is no indication that it could, and these black holes would be obvious if they would have been produced. Even if could, they wouldn't produce notable gravitational waves.
Dance, even if you have nowhere to do it but your own living room.
Wear Sunscreen by Baz Luhrmann - Mary Schmich
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Re: LIGO - Was It All Just Noise?
I plugged in numbers into the quadrupole formula. There is nothing published because a one-minute calculation shows it is tens of orders of magnitude too weak to be relevant.
Virgo joined LIGO in the science run on Tuesday, this months they will measure together. Afterwards all three detectors will go into another upgrade phase (for ~1 year) to improve the sensitivity.
Virgo joined LIGO in the science run on Tuesday, this months they will measure together. Afterwards all three detectors will go into another upgrade phase (for ~1 year) to improve the sensitivity.
Re: LIGO - Was It All Just Noise?
Ok. Thanks!
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Wear Sunscreen by Baz Luhrmann - Mary Schmich
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Re: LIGO - Was It All Just Noise?
A small reminder what happens when things are shaken up by small vibrations and whole structures collide:
Neglect of the engineers.Saverio Ferrari blamed the Genoa bridge collapse on the decision of the original building team not to build the supporting piles with anti-seismic materials.
…
"When the structure was put up, the supporting piles were not made to sustain earthquakes." - source:Genoa bridge collapse: 'That's WHY the bridge gave out' Engineer who built bridge explains
BTW: Who would have thought?
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Wear Sunscreen by Baz Luhrmann - Mary Schmich
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