Neutrinos go faster then light !

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icebati
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Re: Neutrinos go faster then light !

Post by icebati » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:03 am

out of curiosity, is it practical to compare Neutrino with light
they are different

mikeme
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Re: Neutrinos go faster then light !

Post by mikeme » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:28 am

I think if this is true than scientist have to re-think all their theories . But , as the old theory prove its points in real life so, it can not be fully wrong . I like to share the following news .

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/201 ... -to-do.ars

TouchandgoBullethead
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Re: Neutrinos go faster then light !

Post by TouchandgoBullethead » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:35 pm

Im confused. If the neutrino has even a "tiny" mass what happens to it's mass near the speed of light?

Harbles
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Re: Neutrinos go faster then light !

Post by Harbles » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:50 pm

Big Big news to day. It was all a dream.

Well would you believe a faulty fibre optic connector? How about a 'problem' with an oscillator?

There is supposed to be a press statement issued on Thursday.

http://www.globalnews.ca/world/world/eu ... story.html

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... ight-setup

And latest http://blogs.nature.com/news/2012/02/fa ... rrors.html

Albert is resting easier tonight.

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DCWhitworth
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Re: Neutrinos go faster then light !

Post by DCWhitworth » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:54 pm

Well I'm not accepting things one way or another just yet until they do a rerun in May.

One interesting thing is that the two issues found work in opposite directions in terms of the final result.
DC

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Kasuha
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Re: Neutrinos go faster then light !

Post by Kasuha » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:39 am

They don't even know the amplitude of the error yet.

http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/02/2 ... neutrinos/

I just wonder how does it go together with the fact that they used portable atomic clock to calibrate both ends and found no more than 2 ns difference.

I'm definitely looking forward the May recalibration.

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Re: Neutrinos go faster then light !

Post by Harbles » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:58 pm

A very good article here in the Of Particular Significance Blog.

http://profmattstrassler.com/2012/02/24 ... ome-sense/

From the above.
"As I suspected all along (and contrary to the original press reports), the OPERA experimenters do not claim to have found the cause of the 60 nanosecond shift in the timing of the neutrinos. They only have suspect causes. This is not the same thing. The mystery is not over yet (though it has probably entered its final chapter.)"

If any one is a fluent German speaker this article has the info.
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wissen/physi ... 60876.html

Any help pointing out significant errors that Google Translate makes would be appreciated.

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Re: Neutrinos go faster then light !

Post by Harbles » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:13 pm

The sound of shoes dropping, not sure if this is one or the other but I'm sure no one is too surprised.

http://www.science20.com/quantum_diarie ... gain-88060

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Re: Neutrinos go faster then light !

Post by Kasuha » Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:47 pm

That's very nice result. I hope OPERA will confirm it during the May campaign.

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Re: Neutrinos go faster then light !

Post by Harbles » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:34 am

And doing what leaders should do when things go pear shaped the leader and the chief spokesman of the OPERA collaboration have resigned.

" Both spokesman Antonio Ereditato of the University of Bern in Switzerland and physics coordinator Dario Autiero of Lyon’s Institute of Nuclear Physics in France, who presented the stunning result in September 2011 to a packed auditorium at CERN (pictured), sent out resignations today."
http://blogs.nature.com/news/2012/03/le ... esign.html

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DCWhitworth
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Re: Neutrinos go faster then light !

Post by DCWhitworth » Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:51 am

I expect the non-science press will hype it up as a resignation because of the FTL issue but it looks far more as if there are real issues within the collaboration that go far beyond that. Yes it probably has had an effect but I wouldn't be surprised if this would have happened anyway.

If the press does do that it will be just another sad misunderstanding of how science works and will propogate the belief that they are paying the price for 'failure'
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chelle
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Re: Neutrinos go faster then light !

Post by chelle » Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:39 pm

DCWhitworth wrote:I expect the non-science press will hype it up as a resignation because of the FTL issue but it looks far more as if there are real issues within the collaboration that go far beyond that. Yes it probably has had an effect but I wouldn't be surprised if this would have happened anyway.
The problems probably started when some wanted to publish and others not, thus months before (beyond) the press conference, so yes it very likely that it is only because of the FTL results.
If the press does do that it will be just another sad misunderstanding of how science works and will propogate the belief that they are paying the price for 'failure'
No you are probably wrong here, and in that case the press is doing their job as it should be, because I also think that this resignation is a bad signal given to the science community. You do a test and report the results. If they aren't in line with what is expected, than one should not have to fear to publish these results because it brings one's job is in danger. It makes me think of the Apollo mission where an astronaut was afraid to report bad wiring out of fear to loose his job and and a fatal accident happened, remember: http://youtu.be/m8chx10UbI8
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Harbles
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Re: Neutrinos go faster then light !

Post by Harbles » Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:20 pm

Another great piece from Matt Strassler that ties up some of the loose ends on the Opera Neutrino timing kerfuffle with more detail.

" Scientific mistakes are forgivable; at the forefront of knowledge, where new techniques are being tried out for the first time, mistakes are going to happen. Some mistakes are worse than others, but even bad ones are going to happen to good people sometimes. The issue here is not the scientific errors themselves, but the bad judgment about how to handle a potentially sensational but probably wrong scientific result. "


http://profmattstrassler.com/articles-a ... ent-wrong/

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chelle
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Re: Neutrinos go faster then light !

Post by chelle » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:13 pm

Harbles wrote:"The issue here is not the scientific errors themselves, but the bad judgment about how to handle a potentially sensational but probably wrong scientific result."
Great article, but his Personal Comments are BS. They stated from in the beginning that there probably was somewhere a mistake, and they asked for help. Maybe it is thanks to coming forward with the results that they got some fresh air and found the answer, that is often how it goes for everyone, even in your personal life, you're stuck you say what's on your mind and someone listens. The big fault would have been to keep it a secret, being afraid to ask for help and that you might look like a fool.

I thought it was a great thing that they opened up, it brought everyones attention and interest isn't that what science is about, sharing. Now this guy is just saying that you should not share ... how else can one interpret "bad judgment about how to handle a potentially sensational but probably wrong scientific result". ... just keep quit ... that's too easy to say, now you know what the mistake was.

It is weird that he is so outspoken towards the leaders of the project, when he himself, wasn't fully aware of the implications of this fiber issue, as he points out in this reply to the guy who had the right guess:

"Eric — Thanks! Might I ask — for the benefit of my many non-technical readers (and to some degree for me too), could you try to translate this into even less technical language? Some of this would be hard to follow if you didn’t know quite a bit about electronics." http://profmattstrassler.com/2012/02/24 ... ome-sense/
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Kasuha
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Re: Neutrinos go faster then light !

Post by Kasuha » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:55 am

Finally some technical details about what went wrong in OPERA:
http://profmattstrassler.com/articles-a ... ent-wrong/
What I find the most amusing is that their superior consistency between long pulse and short pulse measurements was matter of pure luck. Who would have guessed that pulses fired from CERN over 14 days would all fall into the same part of a 0.6 second period?

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