personal theory questions

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muttvette
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personal theory questions

Post by muttvette » Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:24 am

Ok now let's just say for the sake of argument that the LHC given enough time could create strangelets or wormholes....

If i understand the theory correctly they would have to run at the very least like 4 TEV.

On top of all this to calibrate where the wormhole itself goes it would take a computer calculating compression (squeezing of beams) and the frequency of collisions and their compression to even guess where it will go.

The question really is does this stand up.... does this work in the science we know so far.
Is this why they've been even remotely secretive about the goal being 7 TEV

I truly believe that the LHC will one day create a wormhole however i think that the first ones we will have no idea where they go.

P.S. there was also something I read about seismic activity in 1993 somewhere around california supposedly being cause by a wormhole going through our planet?

P.P.S. Looking at the imaging of the collisions it seems as though even at that low power it seemed to create something akin to a wormhole or strangelet not only redirecting the particles but making a quantum explosion of sorts.

PLEASE PLEASE correct me on any of this i'm getting instant mail sent to my phone when someone does

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March_Hare
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Re: personal theory questions

Post by March_Hare » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:01 am

What exactly is your question?

There are all sorts of doomprophets around saying that something or other is going to destroy the world. Some of these people are genuinely misguided, others have "evil" intentions (for example, personal gain by scaring others). What you refer to (black hole or wormhole in '93) sounds exactly like one of those ideas.
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muttvette
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Re: personal theory questions

Post by muttvette » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:11 am

I really don't know anything about the stuff i read about 93 wormhole blah blah what i was asking was if a wormhole did pass through earth what anyone knowledgable thought would happen as a result if any.

My questions about the lhc discovering wormhole technology (at least i thought were reasonable)

Would it be possible to control the direction of a wormhole with computations of collisions and squeezing?

In theory could the LHC make a strangelet or wormhole regardless of size?

Now that i think of it and have read a bit more on this could dark matter be used as an anti-gravitational force and make the wormhole stable or able to expand or even able to allow for biological matter to go through?

I read something in a stephen hawking double book that was saying the gravitational force that makes the hole collapse on itself would need some sort of dark matter to hold it open. Maybe if they lined the inside of wormhole with it. It also stated that dark matter is hard to find and experiment on.

Shadowdraxx
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Re: personal theory questions

Post by Shadowdraxx » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:53 am

I really don't know where your stranglet at 4Tev came from but according to all known realised theories LHC is less likley to produce them (0) than RHIC which has been running for 10 years without any being made, this is due to the fact the LHC is hotter in the collision area than RHIC and stranglets are locked to colder temps (this is theory upon theory upon theory NONE has ever been realised because srangelet (theory) has never been seen...).

please refer and read the Lsag report for the further understanding of the subject.

I cba to do the work you need to do for yourself :)

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DCWhitworth
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Re: personal theory questions

Post by DCWhitworth » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:41 pm

muttvette wrote: P.S. there was also something I read about seismic activity in 1993 somewhere around california supposedly being cause by a wormhole going through our planet?
I'm sure you could also read somewhere that it was the Devil farting if you looked hard enough.

What might have happened is some 'scientist' somewhere said something that journalists didn't understand so they wrote what they 'thought' they said or rather what they wished he had said. Happens all the time in this field of science which is why we get the rubbish in the press we do.

For instance - black holes and the LHC

1. Some theories postulate that the LHC will be able to create very compacted particles with the some of the characteristics of black holes.
2. All these theories also say the 'black holes' will evaporate almost instantly.
3. Even if point two was wrong and they stuck around they would be so small they would take millions of years to absorb even a grain of sand.
4. Lazy journalists read the above three points and pick out the words LHC, will, be, able, to, create, black, holes. They then write an article based on that and quoting some publicity seeking 'expert'.
DC

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muttvette
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Re: personal theory questions

Post by muttvette » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:58 am

I had also read somewhere that if they could make a wormhole the only way to keep it from collapsing on itself would be to introduce dark matter into it. being that dark matter is so light that it makes it nearly antigravitational

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March_Hare
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Re: personal theory questions

Post by March_Hare » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:50 am

Muttvette, reading between the lines I am getting the impression that you think that LHC is some kind of black-hole / worm-hole factory? Or that it has a "secret purpose" to make one?

(I may be reading it wrong of course...)
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Shadowdraxx
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Re: personal theory questions

Post by Shadowdraxx » Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:56 pm

right!

you know i once read of a "theory" like that well it went along the lines someone thought it was all star trek fied that they needed to make a wormhole in the LHC be become known to some dudes in outta space, and they come on down and say well done! (only to be blown up when leaving from the a sinister side of some secret us government agency because they think they have come to take over earth).

sounded great for a holywood blockbuster, but cant see anyone buying into the idea tbh, wormholes are soooo 1990's....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVR320Fo ... L&index=26

muttvette
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Re: personal theory questions

Post by muttvette » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:17 pm

So what yall are saying is that in no way shape or form will the lhc or any collider like it make a wormhole and I shouldn't research or wonder how they could?

Stephen
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Re: personal theory questions

Post by Stephen » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:38 pm

Well I found a nice article for you -
http://www.universetoday.com/2008/02/07 ... travelers/

seedyjay
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Re: personal theory questions

Post by seedyjay » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:56 pm

muttvette wrote:So what yall are saying is that in no way shape or form will the lhc or any collider like it make a wormhole and I shouldn't research or wonder how they could?
You should definitely do the research until you understand exactly what is being said. Then you will realize just how ridiculous some of these notions are.

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March_Hare
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Re: personal theory questions

Post by March_Hare » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:03 pm

muttvette wrote:So what yall are saying is that in no way shape or form will the lhc or any collider like it make a wormhole and I shouldn't research or wonder how they could?
Yes!
The LHC is simply a particle accelerator like others that have been used for decades. It is more powerful than the others, and that is all. There would be no justification (scientific or otherwise) in investing money and all this effort in something that has been done before.

Can't find the link (it's here on the forum somewhere) but there's a very good article that explains some of the stuff about black holes (no worm holes afaik). Basically it says this:
- Nothing strange or disturbing has happened in other particle accelerators that suggests that something dangerous could happen in LHC
- LHC is more powerful than it's predecessors, but it's an increase by about 1 order of magnitude (10 times). Yes, the machine is a revolution (in both technology and science), but it's no way a doomsday device.
- *IF* (and that's a big if) a black hole is created in LHC, it has to be of the smallest, tiniest variety... (diameter of the Planck constant, if I recall correctly). It simply could not be any larger, or we should have found one in other accelerators by now. And we didn't.
- Now such tiny black holes have special properties, one of them being that they cannot be stable (for reasons that I cannot quite recall... Schwarzschild radius being smaller than the diameter of the hole? ... can someone help me out please?).

Anyway, the upshot is that *if* such a hole would be made, it would almost instantaneously evaporate. There would be no way to interact with it, no way to control it, and no way to make it grow (its lifetime would be too short for that).

The hole would leave traces that we could detect (= particles flying off), and that's how scientists "hope to find" these tiny black holes: not by having them in a jar, but by doing complicated calculations on events that happened in a fraction of a second when two particles met in the collider.
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muttvette
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Re: personal theory questions

Post by muttvette » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:22 pm

Ok so there's a possibility it could and eventually with enough research we could control them one day maybe even use them for travel but those days are a ways away thank you

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Xymox
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Re: personal theory questions

Post by Xymox » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:04 am

Its important to look at who writes the "research" or article your reading your "facts" from. Just because some guy on some blog some place states doomsday,, does NOT mean he has ANY idea what he is talking about. Many legit looking web sites are run by one person, or a group, with little or no actual training in science.

If you look at main stream _credible_ press reports or ANY science study they all say the same thing. Its safe.

I do like your idea of creating worm holes for good purposes. We really have NO idea how to do that or how to manipulate one of course. BUT maybe from research done at the LHC and maybe from some new physics that could come from the LHC results this may one decade from now lead to what you describe. Harnessing black holes, dark matter/energy and worm holes could well be the future. The very distant future.

As was stated earlier, cosmic rays prove the LHC is safe. Black holes are present everywhere in the universe and most likely produce highly accelerated beams as matter skims the event horizon and escapes. These bath the surround matter with ultra high energy cosmic rays. The resulting collisions do not produce worm holes or any unusual result we can see. So in space ultra high energy collisions are in fact NATURAL and produce none of the sci-fi effects described.

I like your looking into the future and seeing possible production and manipulation of these things being done. However its most likely a very long way away yet.

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Xymox
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Re: personal theory questions

Post by Xymox » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:07 am

Oh and...

I think you should research and study it. Become a physicist and work on these things.

Harnessing these forces of nature could lead us to having warp drive and being able to explore other stars. Its a important quest and technology to master.

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