Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Stephen » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:25 pm

Shadowdraxx is quite right. For the past few pages, I lost track of what you guys were talking about.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by CharmQuark » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:27 pm

Are you guys just messing around? can't you do it in another thread?
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by tswsl1989 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:28 pm

Splitting the topic around here would be reasonable.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by chelle » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:25 am

Shadowdraxx wrote:why is this in Ivan's thread, talk about derailed
Funny that You are asking; it is because I commented on the graph with the weird vectors that Xymox posted, and where it's preferable for cern to say that it's the software, while in fact it could also be input dependent. Remember your comment:
Shadowdraxx wrote:Toyota are seriously looking into if cosmic rays are the cause of dodgy electronics on their cars. link
And if you know that some of the responses to the Toyota incidents are:
"Cars are moving computers, and the electronics are the very heart of the car," said Ian Mitroff, emeritus professor of USC's Marshall School of Business and a consultant on crisis management. Unlike a mechanical problem, like a sticking pedal, the fix is not easily understood, he said.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/14 ... -2010feb14
and because of this:
MagneticTrap wrote:
@Magnetic trap: I'm not quite sure what you mean by "subnuclear BEC". Which particles exactly share quantum states in that case?
Magnetic hole is a condensate from “unknown bosons”. Minimal magnetic hole, able to ruin protons and capture resulting bosons, must have at birth at least 100-1000 such bosons. Mass of a single boson in a condensate is about 2/3 of mass of proton. 1/3 of mass of proton is equivalent to binding energy of one boson in this subnuclear BEC.
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Kasuha » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:12 am

If Toyota has problems with their cars because of cosmic rays, they just need to hire better programmers. All satellites are under way heavier bombardment than almost anything on earth surface yet they seem to function just well. The problem is just that real-time systems need to be designed to expect any part of the hardware to fail time to time.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by chelle » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:42 pm

Chelle wrote:
Mailo wrote:The new theories are not any more valid, as they are based on a fundamental misunderstanding of what a "bosenova" or a BEC is.
Provide me a better reference of bosenova's than the ones I gave, with the energy numbers of the particles that are sprayed out, and we'll know if I misunderstood.
I've been looking around for energy numbers and there is just nothing out there, only the stuff that these weird ColdFusion-guys are doing, I thought it would be interesting to post:
The reaction might indeed be endothermic but still generate disruptive forces. I'm just trying to think outside the box here, a bit, and my real interest, of course, is in what would happen with deuterium under similar conditions, if this could indeed be done with deuterium.... Might not be possible at all.

I can't assert that some impurity is there. But....

What if in the condensate, there is a rearrangement, and some electrons get absorbed by protons. That would convert the nuclei to a lower atomic number, and the nuclei would then have a positive charge and would repel each other, hence the "explosion." They might also become undetectable.

This may allow reactions like 2 Rb -> A + B + energy, where A is lighter than Rb and B is heavier than Rb.

Energetically Feasible Stable Bose Condensate Pairs X, Y
Resulting from Reactions of the Form: Rb + Rb --> X + Y + energy


----------- Equations follow for Rubidium, Rb, element 37 -----------
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 86Sr38 + 84Kr36 + 2.620 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 87Sr38 + 83Kr36 + 00.527 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 88Sr38 + 82Kr36 + 4.177 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 89Y39 + 81Br35 + 1.342 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 90Zr40 + 80Se34 + 2.193 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 92Zr40 + 78Se34 + 1.145 MeV

It is notable that one of the potential products is a gas, krypton, which might escape detection in the experiment if produced.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

As we mentioned in previous postings, any nuclear reaction with Rb is extremely unlikely, if we assume it is related in any way to a thermonuclear reaction.

HH: I think this is true. OTOH, the fact that a gas, Kr, would be produced from a Rb Bose condensate wave-function collapse, it is very tempting to think such a thing is possible.

JB: Well, I'm not sure why 'any gas' would be preferential,

It is not that gasses per say are preferential at all. It is a matter of energy. Only those reactions that yield net energy occur (at least according to conventional theory). When I gave the following reactions as the only "Energetically Feasible Stable Bose Condensate Pairs X, Y Resulting from Reactions of the Form: Rb + Rb -- > X + Y + energy", this means I checked all such possible reactions, and these were the only 85Rb + 85Rb reactions yielding positive energy:

85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 86Sr38 + 84Kr36 + 2.620 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 87Sr38 + 83Kr36 + 00.527 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 88Sr38 + 82Kr36 + 4.177 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 89Y39 + 81Br35 + 1.342 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 90Zr40 + 80Se34 + 2.193 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 92Zr40 + 78Se34 + 1.145 MeV

When I backed off the energy by 2 MeV I got more:

85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 86Kr36 + 84Sr38 + -0.425 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 85Rb37 + 85Rb37 + 00.000 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 86Sr38 + 84Kr36 + 2.620 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 87Sr38 + 83Kr36 + 00.527 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 88Sr38 + 82Kr36 + 4.177 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 89Y39 + 81Br35 + 1.342 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 90Zr40 + 80Se34 + 2.193 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 92Zr40 + 78Se34 + 1.145 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 94Zr40 + 76Se34 + -1.816 MeV

Now here is a much more interesting variation. When I allowed short half-life product nuclei and required net energy from each reaction I still obtained the first set of reactions. But, when I permitted radioactive products and an energy deficit of up to 2 MeV, this is the much larger list I obtained:

85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 85Kr36 * + 85Sr38 * + -1.752 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 86Kr36 + 84Sr38 + -0.425 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 85Rb37 + 85Rb37 + 00.000 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 86Rb37 * + 84Rb37 * + -1.838 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 87Rb37 + 83Rb37 * + -0.662 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 85Sr38 * + 85Kr36 * + -1.752 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 86Sr38 + 84Kr36 + 2.620 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 87Sr38 + 83Kr36 + 00.527 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 88Sr38 + 82Kr36 + 4.177 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 89Sr38 * + 81Kr36 * + -0.431 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 90Sr38 * + 80Kr36 + -0.501 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 89Y39 + 81Br35 + 1.342 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 90Y39 * + 80Br35 * + -1.958 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 91Y39 * + 79Br35 + -1.921 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 90Zr40 + 80Se34 + 2.193 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 91Zr40 + 79Se34 * + -0.527 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 92Zr40 + 78Se34 + 1.145 MeV
85Rb37 + 85Rb37 --> 94Zr40 + 76Se34 + -1.816 MeV

The radioactive products above are flagged with a asterisk.

I think this speaks as to one aspect of why heavy element LENR tends to create stable products. The unstable products have larger masses, thus leaving no energy (or less energy) for the reaction to be pulled off as the deflated electrons gradually reduce their binding energy and escape the nucleus, thus permitting the most energetic reactions to occur first, thus tending to prevent the reactions which create radioactive nuclei.

In the case of Rb + Rb it is somewhat coincidental that *no* reaction is energetically feasible that creates a radioactive product. It is also true that no deflated electron energy deficits were involved in the calculations, but this case still demonstrates one aspect of how the creation of radioactive products is suppressed in heavy element LENR.

There is also the question as to why fission would be expected, and not typical small particle decays, e.g. beta, proton, or alpha decay, etc. One reason is that fission occurs when Z^2/A > 47. In this case (2*37)^2/47^2 = 32.2, so no fission should be expected, conventionally speaking. However, It seems to me that expanding wave-fuction electrons in the nucleus, post BEC collapse, likely exert a powerful influence on fission via nucleus kinetic interaction, vacuum energy supplied Schrodinger pressure, and negative nuclear halo production, all of which which expand the nucleus and tear it apart.
Source: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@es ... 37525.html
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Kasuha » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:24 pm

My opinion is that by smashing a lead block with hammer you are not going to create any measurable amount of gold regardless how much out of box you think about it.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by CharmQuark » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:57 pm

Our we still talking about Ivans thing or has it completely lost track?
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by Kasuha » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:49 pm

I believe it's still about errors in particle physics ... it might be unclear on whose side the error is but that was this way since the very beginning.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by CharmQuark » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:48 pm

Thanks Kasuha :D I am not really keeping track i was just interested :thumbup:
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by mrgumby » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:05 am

Mailo wrote:micro worm hole through which a huge fleet of warships from aliens from Beta Centauri came through, and called by the tachyons of said wormhole a similar fleet of warships of the mortal enemies of Beta Centauri (Gamma Centauri) would swoop down from the sky to do battle above Lake Geneva, where due to a terrible miscalculation of scale the entire battle fleet was accidentally swallowed by a small dog. ... it would have pretty much equal likelihood of being true. Props to the one catching the quote :D
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by CharmQuark » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:09 am

Hitch Hikers guide to the Galaxy.................AWESOME :thumbup:
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted with large ones either by Albert Einstein.

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by mrgumby » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:26 am

I have the radio H2G2 on Cd as MP3s...I still makes me Laugh out loud...Love old British radio comedy....Round the Horne, ISIRTA, Goons, Jimmy Edwards, etc etc etc. I suspect I'm severely off topic tho..... ;)

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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by chriwi » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:23 am

I did not read enoug of the books to be sure, but from the whole style (just being the most funny scinecefictinnovel ever) and context HG2G was also my 1st guess.
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Re: Several biggest errors of particle physicists.

Post by mrgumby » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:40 am

Douglas Adams' masterpiece......."The Meaning of Liff" :lol:

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